1 00:00:22,529 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:29,099 --> 00:00:25,389 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:31,749 --> 00:00:29,109 episode number 334 for the 15th of March 4 00:00:35,110 --> 00:00:31,759 2015 Richard Saunders here with you from 5 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:35,120 Sydney Australia in the past week in the 6 00:00:40,450 --> 00:00:37,250 past week the National Health and 7 00:00:42,910 --> 00:00:40,460 Medical Research Council this is the 8 00:00:45,130 --> 00:00:42,920 government folks have concluded and 9 00:00:47,740 --> 00:00:45,140 here's a big shock surprise I hope 10 00:00:50,110 --> 00:00:47,750 you're sitting down that homeopathy does 11 00:00:53,259 --> 00:00:50,120 not work or there's no good evidence to 12 00:00:55,509 --> 00:00:53,269 suggest it does etc etc fill in the 13 00:00:57,910 --> 00:00:55,519 blanks which is what homeopathy do all 14 00:01:01,719 --> 00:00:57,920 the time yes no shocking news there for 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:01,729 skeptics I wonder how much this report 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:03,650 costs the government to do they could 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:05,810 have called me up for 75 cents I could 18 00:01:08,740 --> 00:01:06,770 have told them the same thing 19 00:01:10,149 --> 00:01:08,750 nevertheless later on in the show i'll 20 00:01:11,830 --> 00:01:10,159 be reading the statement from the 21 00:01:15,399 --> 00:01:11,840 National Health and Medical Research 22 00:01:18,609 --> 00:01:15,409 Council i'll also be reading the reply 23 00:01:21,690 --> 00:01:18,619 from complementary medicines australia 24 00:01:24,490 --> 00:01:21,700 were they happy were they delighted no 25 00:01:26,140 --> 00:01:24,500 so I guess we can say more or less yes 26 00:01:31,380 --> 00:01:26,150 it's official in Australia the 27 00:01:35,830 --> 00:01:31,390 government says homeopathy does not work 28 00:01:37,990 --> 00:01:35,840 can't get clearer than that still you 29 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:38,000 can go down the street and find it in 30 00:01:42,789 --> 00:01:40,670 the pharmacies just disgraceful maybe 31 00:01:44,410 --> 00:01:42,799 that will change we'll see that's all 32 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:44,420 coming up later on in the show but we're 33 00:01:48,670 --> 00:01:46,010 going to kick off this episode with an 34 00:01:52,420 --> 00:01:48,680 interview i did with mark Honeychurch 35 00:01:54,190 --> 00:01:52,430 the chairperson from the NZ skeptics yes 36 00:01:57,190 --> 00:01:54,200 those New Zealanders are just as 37 00:01:59,590 --> 00:01:57,200 skeptical as well anybody else what's 38 00:02:02,260 --> 00:01:59,600 going on in the land of the long white 39 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:02,270 cloud when it comes to skepticism find 40 00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:04,010 out at the top of the show also this 41 00:02:07,499 --> 00:02:05,600 week we have a week in science from the 42 00:02:11,229 --> 00:02:07,509 Royal Institution in Australia 43 00:02:12,910 --> 00:02:11,239 www.irs.gov a you and we're going to 44 00:02:16,050 --> 00:02:12,920 round off the show with a chat I had 45 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:16,060 with our adult friend of mine Jeff wag 46 00:02:22,119 --> 00:02:19,610 Jeff wag from the College of curiosity 47 00:02:24,309 --> 00:02:22,129 he's a bit of an adventure gfy he goes 48 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:24,319 around the world on cruise ships where 49 00:02:28,769 --> 00:02:26,810 that venturous people seeking out new 50 00:02:31,449 --> 00:02:28,779 and interesting places around the world 51 00:02:34,090 --> 00:02:31,459 well his crew is in Sydney just this 52 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:34,100 week and they set sail well 53 00:02:38,350 --> 00:02:36,650 as I record this only yesterday so I 54 00:02:41,380 --> 00:02:38,360 catch up with Jeff wagon friends 55 00:02:43,990 --> 00:02:41,390 including naomi baker when they were in 56 00:02:45,340 --> 00:02:44,000 Sydney for a few days thank you to those 57 00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:45,350 people who have been sending me 58 00:02:53,410 --> 00:02:47,750 compliments on my arm origami 59 00:02:55,060 --> 00:02:53,420 photography as seen on ww skeptics on TV 60 00:02:58,030 --> 00:02:55,070 some of the posters I've been doing lots 61 00:03:00,550 --> 00:02:58,040 of fun really enjoying that but now it's 62 00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:00,560 time for me to run downstairs have some 63 00:03:07,690 --> 00:03:05,360 nice cooked Chuck cooked Chuck you might 64 00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:07,700 have to google that one if you're not in 65 00:03:13,990 --> 00:03:11,360 Australia cooked Chuck yum yum while I'm 66 00:03:36,670 --> 00:03:14,000 enjoying that with some baked potatoes I 67 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:39,440 and joining me now all the way across 68 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:41,730 the ditch as they say that the ocean 69 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:43,530 between Australia and New Zealand is 70 00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:46,050 called the ditch i'm not sure why it's 71 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:49,200 mark Honeychurch the chairperson from NZ 72 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:52,260 skeptic hi mark hey how's it going you 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:54,720 know what it's one of those hot stinky 74 00:03:58,130 --> 00:03:56,490 human days and Sydney but I understand 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:03:58,140 the weather and Wellington has just been 76 00:04:02,570 --> 00:04:01,050 wonderful it has been an absolutely 77 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:02,580 gorgeous summer which is very rare for 78 00:04:07,420 --> 00:04:04,370 Wellington but I'm not going to complain 79 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:07,430 how long have you been in Wellington 80 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:10,050 eight and a half years I think now it's 81 00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:11,610 bids been a while and so I've had a lot 82 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:14,070 of bad summer's over here and of course 83 00:04:18,259 --> 00:04:16,410 they are the sake of our international 84 00:04:21,050 --> 00:04:18,269 listened as Wellington is the capital of 85 00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:21,060 New Zealand fact I was the guest of the 86 00:04:25,450 --> 00:04:23,760 nsaid skeptics many years ago and i'm 87 00:04:31,159 --> 00:04:25,460 trying to think when that was around 88 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:31,169 2003 or 2000 for myself and skeptic the 89 00:04:34,970 --> 00:04:33,150 timer Linda Brown went over we performed 90 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:34,980 our mystery investigators show at the 91 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:37,890 conference in Christchurch and we had a 92 00:04:42,650 --> 00:04:41,070 great time oh nice not well good to hear 93 00:04:43,909 --> 00:04:42,660 that you've been over and maybe we 94 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:43,919 should get you back over here again at 95 00:04:47,690 --> 00:04:45,960 some point I wouldn't object to that new 96 00:04:49,940 --> 00:04:47,700 zealand is a wonderful place I I 97 00:04:52,850 --> 00:04:49,950 thoroughly enjoyed it it was charming 98 00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:52,860 absolutely a staggering place was famous 99 00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:54,240 now because of lord of the rings of 100 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:55,440 course people from all around the world 101 00:04:59,300 --> 00:04:56,970 want to go there and visit middle-earth 102 00:05:01,070 --> 00:04:59,310 but apart from that that which is 103 00:05:04,219 --> 00:05:01,080 beautiful enough it is a wonderful place 104 00:05:06,170 --> 00:05:04,229 but let's talk about skepticism in New 105 00:05:08,950 --> 00:05:06,180 Zealand what the ins head skeptics have 106 00:05:11,420 --> 00:05:08,960 been up to and maybe we can start off by 107 00:05:14,060 --> 00:05:11,430 if I can ask you how long is the 108 00:05:17,390 --> 00:05:14,070 organization being around more or less I 109 00:05:18,710 --> 00:05:17,400 believe it's been around since 1986 and 110 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:18,720 since then I think it's been 111 00:05:23,030 --> 00:05:20,760 continuously providing both the journal 112 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:23,040 and a yearly conference so it's been a 113 00:05:26,659 --> 00:05:25,050 fairly steady organization for all the 114 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:26,669 years since it got started which is 115 00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:29,610 quite nice to see that's impressive 1986 116 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:31,110 is a good track record Australian 117 00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:35,010 skeptics date back from 1981 so again 118 00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:39,600 nice backlog of years and investigations 119 00:05:44,180 --> 00:05:41,750 and articles and reports under your belt 120 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:44,190 but let's look at the present then maybe 121 00:05:47,330 --> 00:05:46,050 into the future what's happening at the 122 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:47,340 moment with NZ 123 00:05:52,340 --> 00:05:50,850 skeptics well at the moment we're 124 00:05:54,409 --> 00:05:52,350 actually focusing as a committee on a 125 00:05:56,540 --> 00:05:54,419 lot of internal stuff so for example 126 00:06:00,050 --> 00:05:56,550 we've just had a new logo design which 127 00:06:02,150 --> 00:06:00,060 it's really nice it combines the Kiwi 128 00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:02,160 which is classic New Zealand the coro 129 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:04,889 another nice new zealand symbol and the 130 00:06:07,850 --> 00:06:06,330 designer managed to get a question mark 131 00:06:09,710 --> 00:06:07,860 in there as well and they all work 132 00:06:12,590 --> 00:06:09,720 really nicely together and they suggest 133 00:06:14,750 --> 00:06:12,600 skepticism and New Zealand which is yeah 134 00:06:16,219 --> 00:06:14,760 we were so chuffed when we saw the logo 135 00:06:18,980 --> 00:06:16,229 that came out the end of our process 136 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:18,990 it's a it's a good bold new look for the 137 00:06:23,090 --> 00:06:21,210 nsaid skeptics that's interesting to 138 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:23,100 hear that and i must say i have had a 139 00:06:30,650 --> 00:06:25,710 peek at your new logo and it's great i 140 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:30,660 love it because our original sky look at 141 00:06:34,340 --> 00:06:32,850 the australian skeptics was it's a koala 142 00:06:36,890 --> 00:06:34,350 we still use it there's a koala with a 143 00:06:38,719 --> 00:06:36,900 magnifying glass so we sort of got 144 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:38,729 worked in the local wildlife but more 145 00:06:46,570 --> 00:06:41,850 recently and for many years now anyway 146 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:46,580 the logo has been the map of Australia 147 00:06:51,950 --> 00:06:49,650 bent and distorted into a question mark 148 00:06:54,379 --> 00:06:51,960 yeah and I have to say that I think the 149 00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:54,389 Australian skeptics logo was a little 150 00:06:58,100 --> 00:06:56,639 bit of an influence on what we asked our 151 00:06:59,840 --> 00:06:58,110 designer for the idea of having 152 00:07:03,110 --> 00:06:59,850 something that was nationally 153 00:07:04,339 --> 00:07:03,120 identifiable that was it seemed like you 154 00:07:06,620 --> 00:07:04,349 guys have got it right with that one 155 00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:06,630 that nobody could mistake your logo for 156 00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:08,160 the skeptics anywhere else in the world 157 00:07:12,589 --> 00:07:11,520 yeah I think you're right now what are 158 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:12,599 the some of the things that you've been 159 00:07:19,580 --> 00:07:14,930 getting up to lately and by way of maybe 160 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:19,590 investigations or maybe activity being 161 00:07:23,870 --> 00:07:22,410 active in New Zealand so we've we've 162 00:07:26,750 --> 00:07:23,880 just started a new journal along with 163 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:26,760 the new logo we have a new editor who's 164 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:28,260 done a brand new look for our journal 165 00:07:31,940 --> 00:07:30,210 it's all color throughout now which is 166 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:31,950 really nice the only thing we have to 167 00:07:36,409 --> 00:07:34,530 work out there is how to get printed in 168 00:07:39,710 --> 00:07:36,419 color in a cost effective manner so 169 00:07:41,870 --> 00:07:39,720 we're looking into that just last week 170 00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:41,880 we had so we have a magazine in New 171 00:07:46,070 --> 00:07:44,460 Zealand called uncensored and it's a big 172 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:46,080 conspiracy magazine I think it might be 173 00:07:51,020 --> 00:07:48,210 sold in Australia and they're trying to 174 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:51,030 make headway in the States as well at 175 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:53,010 the moment but they basically will 176 00:07:57,770 --> 00:07:54,690 publish any old nonsense to do with 177 00:08:01,119 --> 00:07:57,780 conspiracy theories and all that kind of 178 00:08:03,820 --> 00:08:01,129 jazz and in January I think 179 00:08:05,739 --> 00:08:03,830 end of January the editor was given some 180 00:08:08,979 --> 00:08:05,749 footage that he was told was genuine 181 00:08:11,439 --> 00:08:08,989 Roswell alien footage and it was it was 182 00:08:13,839 --> 00:08:11,449 black and white and grainy and it kind 183 00:08:16,509 --> 00:08:13,849 of looked familiar kind of similar to 184 00:08:18,759 --> 00:08:16,519 the the alien autopsy footage that we 185 00:08:20,649 --> 00:08:18,769 all know but it wasn't it wasn't the 186 00:08:22,119 --> 00:08:20,659 same it was different and they they got 187 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:22,129 experts to look at it and they were 188 00:08:26,559 --> 00:08:24,409 saying that it was definitely genuine it 189 00:08:28,509 --> 00:08:26,569 can be dated back to the right time and 190 00:08:30,219 --> 00:08:28,519 then a reporter over here Rebecca 191 00:08:32,139 --> 00:08:30,229 quilliam she did a little bit of 192 00:08:34,889 --> 00:08:32,149 investigation and found out that it was 193 00:08:37,839 --> 00:08:34,899 actually from a movie that was made in 194 00:08:41,949 --> 00:08:37,849 2006 by comedy duo from the UK called 195 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:41,959 Ant and Dec and when interviewed the 196 00:08:46,210 --> 00:08:44,000 editor of uncensored magazine just 197 00:08:48,730 --> 00:08:46,220 absolutely refused to accept that this 198 00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:48,740 was the case so what the ends at 199 00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:50,750 skeptics did was we got a copy of the 200 00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:53,870 movie and we played it side by side with 201 00:08:58,629 --> 00:08:56,240 the Roswell footage from uncensored 202 00:09:00,759 --> 00:08:58,639 magazine and a frame for frame it is 203 00:09:03,970 --> 00:09:00,769 exactly the same footage oh how 204 00:09:05,949 --> 00:09:03,980 embarrassing yeah a little bit 205 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:05,959 embarrassing um so we've we've tweeted 206 00:09:08,949 --> 00:09:07,490 out to a couple of places we really 207 00:09:10,929 --> 00:09:08,959 should let the guy from uncensored know 208 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:10,939 as well that that he's been thoroughly 209 00:09:16,569 --> 00:09:13,490 debunked but yeah a bit embarrassing for 210 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:16,579 him nice one nice one that sounds like 211 00:09:21,370 --> 00:09:18,800 an interesting thing I would like to be 212 00:09:23,499 --> 00:09:21,380 a fly on the wall now one of the things 213 00:09:27,970 --> 00:09:23,509 that's come out of New Zealand over the 214 00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:27,980 past years has been the Shu Zi band are 215 00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:29,620 you you're familiar that I would assume 216 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:32,240 yeah so the shootie band I've not 217 00:09:35,889 --> 00:09:34,250 actually worn one unfortunately I really 218 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:35,899 should try one on at some point but i 219 00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:39,410 have talked with the distributor in new 220 00:09:44,470 --> 00:09:42,350 zealand and told them how I thought they 221 00:09:47,379 --> 00:09:44,480 were not doing a very good thing selling 222 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:47,389 Susie I have put in I think one or two a 223 00:09:51,730 --> 00:09:49,370 SI complaints that's the Advertising 224 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:51,740 Standards Authority and had them upheld 225 00:09:56,590 --> 00:09:54,290 as have others others in the skeptics we 226 00:09:58,780 --> 00:09:56,600 run a skeptical activism group in 227 00:10:00,340 --> 00:09:58,790 Wellington and a few of us have put in 228 00:10:02,319 --> 00:10:00,350 complaints about Susie and managed to 229 00:10:05,889 --> 00:10:02,329 get them upheld so they've had to change 230 00:10:08,259 --> 00:10:05,899 flyers and website and a few other bits 231 00:10:09,579 --> 00:10:08,269 and bobs but unfortunately I think we've 232 00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:09,589 not managed to get the same traction 233 00:10:12,009 --> 00:10:10,880 that you guys managed to get you guys I 234 00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:12,019 think did really well with your 235 00:10:14,950 --> 00:10:14,240 publicity and they basically stopped 236 00:10:16,900 --> 00:10:14,960 selling in us 237 00:10:19,390 --> 00:10:16,910 yes I understand yeah it was an 238 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:19,400 interesting story i ran across them and 239 00:10:26,380 --> 00:10:22,330 a mind-body wallet 1mon buddy festival 240 00:10:28,570 --> 00:10:26,390 in sydney what we've we love calling at 241 00:10:32,650 --> 00:10:28,580 mind-body world and I challenged the guy 242 00:10:37,630 --> 00:10:32,660 behind a Gary good fellow on the spot 243 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:37,640 and he then said eventually yes but 244 00:10:40,630 --> 00:10:39,350 through correspondence yesterday would 245 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:40,640 take the test yesterday I'd take the 246 00:10:44,830 --> 00:10:42,380 test that show that it worked yes and 247 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:44,840 when it came to the time what we were 248 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:46,160 going to negotiate the test on 249 00:10:52,020 --> 00:10:49,250 television they fled the country so no 250 00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:52,030 it does not give us much confidence in 251 00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:55,310 in what they were trying to sell or what 252 00:11:00,640 --> 00:10:58,730 the claims are making a thing no and 253 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:00,650 over here I'm I wonder whether maybe we 254 00:11:03,850 --> 00:11:01,850 should try and get Vicky hide to do 255 00:11:05,890 --> 00:11:03,860 something similar offer a very public 256 00:11:07,510 --> 00:11:05,900 test she's she's definitely a media 257 00:11:09,610 --> 00:11:07,520 personality over here and I think she'd 258 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:09,620 probably do a good job of that yes you 259 00:11:13,420 --> 00:11:12,170 please pass on my best to Vicki I she's 260 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:13,430 a good friend of mine haven't seen her 261 00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:14,810 for many years though and she was very 262 00:11:20,590 --> 00:11:17,510 gracious when we visited New Zealand all 263 00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:20,600 those years ago yes but that's it's an 264 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:22,880 interesting story if people look at the 265 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:25,010 show notes on the website for this 266 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:27,770 episode I'll link to a report I wrote 267 00:11:33,490 --> 00:11:30,530 about trying to test this Susie I mean 268 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:33,500 it's it's more or less a power balance 269 00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:36,290 cloned or maybe power balance was issues 270 00:11:42,250 --> 00:11:38,830 he cloned they will make vaguely similar 271 00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:42,260 claims and the test I saw them do at the 272 00:11:46,990 --> 00:11:44,480 mind-body wallet fair was right out of 273 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:47,000 the book right out of the book of the 274 00:11:50,770 --> 00:11:49,250 arm being pushed down and you wear this 275 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:50,780 and you're magically stronger all that 276 00:11:54,850 --> 00:11:53,510 sort of stuff yep yep so pretty easy to 277 00:11:56,980 --> 00:11:54,860 debunk if you know what you're doing and 278 00:11:59,500 --> 00:11:56,990 put in a little bit of blinding more or 279 00:12:02,560 --> 00:11:59,510 less now in your travels and in your 280 00:12:04,810 --> 00:12:02,570 investigations in New Zealand are there 281 00:12:06,670 --> 00:12:04,820 many things we have the Sasquatch in 282 00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:06,680 North America we have the Yowie in 283 00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:09,620 Australia what what does New Zealand 284 00:12:14,830 --> 00:12:12,830 have to offer the cryptozoologist so we 285 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:14,840 have a couple the I'd say the 286 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:16,970 interesting one is the mower because I 287 00:12:21,420 --> 00:12:18,650 did that there are still mower roaming 288 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:21,430 around you know several meter high birds 289 00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,810 yeah so it's it's something that's got a 290 00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:25,360 little bit of history over here and 291 00:12:28,879 --> 00:12:27,800 certain certain people swear that 292 00:12:31,249 --> 00:12:28,889 they've seen the mower 293 00:12:33,259 --> 00:12:31,259 around on the South Island so that one 294 00:12:35,119 --> 00:12:33,269 snap that one's nice to hear one that I 295 00:12:37,099 --> 00:12:35,129 find more mundane even though it's a 296 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:37,109 little bit weirder is there is an idea 297 00:12:41,299 --> 00:12:38,910 that there a moose on the South Island 298 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:41,309 moose that nobody seen yeah I don't know 299 00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:43,470 how they got over but I think there's 300 00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,720 one guy in particular that spends a few 301 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:47,519 weeks every year just roaming the bush 302 00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:49,169 in the South Island looking for this 303 00:12:54,139 --> 00:12:51,540 elusive moose that he's convinced it 304 00:12:55,729 --> 00:12:54,149 down there good well it is looking for 305 00:12:58,249 --> 00:12:55,739 the mower and Biggs reminds me of people 306 00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,259 in this country who spent an awful lot 307 00:13:02,989 --> 00:13:00,720 of time looking for the Tasmanian tiger 308 00:13:04,939 --> 00:13:02,999 also known as the thylacine and other 309 00:13:07,249 --> 00:13:04,949 elusive creatures in the bush button 310 00:13:08,809 --> 00:13:07,259 mower I did not know that there are some 311 00:13:11,179 --> 00:13:08,819 people who think that the most ill is 312 00:13:13,069 --> 00:13:11,189 around that's amazing yeah I believe one 313 00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:13,079 of the guys that push the story back in 314 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:16,649 maybe the late 80s just happen to own a 315 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:18,809 motel very close to where he said he saw 316 00:13:24,829 --> 00:13:22,350 it so not sure of what his reasoning was 317 00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:24,839 there his motivations I wouldn't like to 318 00:13:29,449 --> 00:13:26,910 suggest anything obviously well mind you 319 00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:29,459 I I could think of a lot worse things to 320 00:13:32,929 --> 00:13:31,139 do than to spend a couple of weeks in 321 00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:32,939 New Zealand looking for a mower I think 322 00:13:37,249 --> 00:13:35,040 that would be a pretty nice way to spend 323 00:13:38,689 --> 00:13:37,259 a couple of weeks that is a good point 324 00:13:41,479 --> 00:13:38,699 at even if you don't see it you're gonna 325 00:13:44,929 --> 00:13:41,489 have a nice time out of the bush I think 326 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:44,939 you are and I imagine you get the same 327 00:13:48,619 --> 00:13:46,649 sort of thing that we get in Australia 328 00:13:51,739 --> 00:13:48,629 we you get the psychics on television 329 00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,749 you get people trying to look for UFOs 330 00:13:57,639 --> 00:13:54,480 in fact now I remember there now I think 331 00:14:00,499 --> 00:13:57,649 about it when I was in New Zealand I 332 00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:00,509 think he gave me the raw tapes of a TV 333 00:14:06,590 --> 00:14:03,600 show and there was a woman doing psychic 334 00:14:08,569 --> 00:14:06,600 acts on TV and she was apparently very 335 00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:08,579 famous in New Zealand but no but no 336 00:14:13,220 --> 00:14:10,769 where else you're still getting people 337 00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:13,230 who claim to talk with the dead yeah I 338 00:14:17,119 --> 00:14:14,519 bet you know I don't think they're gonna 339 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:17,129 go away anytime soon and we have a few 340 00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,289 personalities over here a couple of them 341 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:21,360 became famous through the sensing murder 342 00:14:27,259 --> 00:14:24,410 TV series back in the early two thousand 343 00:14:30,349 --> 00:14:27,269 one of our local characters was invited 344 00:14:31,999 --> 00:14:30,359 to the Wellington conference in 2013 his 345 00:14:34,129 --> 00:14:32,009 name's Ken ring and he says he can 346 00:14:35,779 --> 00:14:34,139 predict the weather from the phases of 347 00:14:37,869 --> 00:14:35,789 the Moon and he will sell farmers a 348 00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:37,879 whole years worth of Alma knack right 349 00:14:42,379 --> 00:14:40,289 upcoming weather and a lot of farmers 350 00:14:42,770 --> 00:14:42,389 over here swear by it so I invited him 351 00:14:45,650 --> 00:14:42,780 to our 352 00:14:47,090 --> 00:14:45,660 skeptics conference he gave us a set of 353 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:47,100 terms and conditions that we would never 354 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:50,910 meet $5,000 personal bodyguards cetera 355 00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:53,340 et cetera and on the back of that it was 356 00:14:57,290 --> 00:14:54,750 it was quite good publicity I thought it 357 00:14:58,700 --> 00:14:57,300 was quite funny so I did invite soon 358 00:15:01,940 --> 00:14:58,710 ickle sad news one of our famous 359 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:01,950 psychics and thinking I'd get the same 360 00:15:05,390 --> 00:15:03,570 kind of response that she'd laugh it off 361 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:05,400 and say why would I go to a skeptics 362 00:15:09,770 --> 00:15:07,170 conference but to my surprise she 363 00:15:11,690 --> 00:15:09,780 actually accepted the invite and her 364 00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,700 only stipulation was that we would pay 365 00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:13,440 five hundred dollars to a charity which 366 00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:15,180 for the skeptics we were more than happy 367 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:17,340 to do so we ended up paying five hundred 368 00:15:21,550 --> 00:15:19,410 dollars to women's refuge and we had a 369 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:21,560 we had a psychic got our conference who 370 00:15:26,330 --> 00:15:23,850 basically ended up talking to us for 45 371 00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:26,340 minutes and then answered 15 minutes of 372 00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:27,600 questions from the audience which was 373 00:15:32,270 --> 00:15:30,870 really good that that why not why not I 374 00:15:35,450 --> 00:15:32,280 think I think I don't think it's 375 00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:35,460 something that personally that in 376 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:37,740 Australia we would do too often because 377 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:39,810 then people might get a little bit 378 00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:44,640 annoyed but once in a while and yeah and 379 00:15:47,690 --> 00:15:45,990 every now and then on the skeptics on 380 00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:47,700 I'll do this whole plane interview with 381 00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:49,230 us somebody who claims they are a 382 00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:50,880 psychic or an astrologer or something 383 00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:53,990 once in a while it's good to hear from 384 00:15:58,910 --> 00:15:56,550 them to try and pick apart their 385 00:16:01,000 --> 00:15:58,920 thinking and I think it's a quite a 386 00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:01,010 divisive thing I think it really shows 387 00:16:04,910 --> 00:16:03,120 different skeptics that you get some 388 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:04,920 skeptics that absolutely love it they 389 00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:07,290 love hearing the nonsense they love 390 00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:08,820 interacting with it and they're fairly 391 00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:10,350 relaxed and then there's another group 392 00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:12,120 of skeptics that you can just you know 393 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:13,860 they take it more seriously you can see 394 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:16,230 them getting very riled up about the 395 00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:17,730 whole thing and it it's interesting to 396 00:16:21,050 --> 00:16:19,500 see that split of different personality 397 00:16:22,970 --> 00:16:21,060 types within the skeptical community 398 00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:22,980 yeah well there are some people who 399 00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:25,800 won't tolerate it and will blast you for 400 00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:28,800 having this person in a conference like 401 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:32,160 that and there are others hopefully more 402 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:35,250 in tune with with us that would find 403 00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:37,410 that valuable I mean that's why we go to 404 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:39,270 mind/body wallet as often as we can 405 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:42,510 because we can't afford to sit in our 406 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:44,370 armchairs we've got to get out there we 407 00:16:48,620 --> 00:16:46,710 got to hear what the other people are 408 00:16:50,690 --> 00:16:48,630 saying and try and pick apart their 409 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:50,700 thinking I think it's a good move yeah 410 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:52,110 but I think we need both types of 411 00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:53,370 skeptics you know we need the ones that 412 00:16:56,660 --> 00:16:54,870 are able to put up this kind of stuff 413 00:16:59,330 --> 00:16:56,670 but we also need the people that get so 414 00:17:01,190 --> 00:16:59,340 incensed by these people that they will 415 00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:01,200 go out of their way to make sure that 416 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:03,060 they can't practice what they what 417 00:17:06,890 --> 00:17:04,770 they're doing you know that will submit 418 00:17:09,140 --> 00:17:06,900 complaints to the government of the a-si 419 00:17:11,180 --> 00:17:09,150 and really make these people's lives a 420 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:11,190 problem because let's be honest a lot of 421 00:17:15,830 --> 00:17:13,530 them not making an honest living well 422 00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:15,840 you know what when it comes down to it I 423 00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:18,720 guess you're right Matt so yes I think 424 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:21,150 it'd make a valid point there now apart 425 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:24,420 from all that when in New Zealand when 426 00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:26,130 people are in New Zealand what are the 427 00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:28,860 social opportunities for the skeptics 428 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:30,030 out there in New Zealand you have 429 00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:31,770 skeptics in the pub and meetings in this 430 00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:34,320 sort of thing yeah so we have a really 431 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:35,880 good network of skeptics in the pub 432 00:17:41,030 --> 00:17:38,220 around New Zealand run by gold who is 433 00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,040 the the chair before me so I took over 434 00:17:45,530 --> 00:17:43,440 from him last September right and he's 435 00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:45,540 still running the skeptics in the pub so 436 00:17:51,260 --> 00:17:47,880 we have them in Auckland Hamilton 437 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:51,270 Palmerston North Wellington Christchurch 438 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:54,210 Dunedin so we've got a good covering so 439 00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:55,890 if you're in any of the major centres 440 00:18:00,410 --> 00:17:58,620 just go on to meetup com and search for 441 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:00,420 skeptics in the pub and they're all run 442 00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:02,730 through that one website it sounds to me 443 00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:05,220 like that would make a great tour of New 444 00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,760 Zealand probably would what from one 445 00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,280 skeptics in the pub to the next to the 446 00:18:16,670 --> 00:18:13,200 next to the next I wonder if they all 447 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:16,680 line up so you could do that um I think 448 00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:18,570 if you ask them nicely maybe they do it 449 00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:20,100 just for you they actually it did happen 450 00:18:25,910 --> 00:18:23,820 the weekend just gone Lee trainer has 451 00:18:27,980 --> 00:18:25,920 been touring I think he's done the three 452 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:27,990 major centres or three of the major 453 00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:30,510 centres he's done Wellington palmerston 454 00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:32,430 north and oakland giving a talk in all 455 00:18:36,170 --> 00:18:34,350 three and i think that was Friday night 456 00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:36,180 Saturday night and the last one is 457 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:38,790 tonight in Auckland so yet if you ask 458 00:18:41,420 --> 00:18:40,110 nicely and especially if it's someone 459 00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:41,430 like you coming over you're willing to 460 00:18:45,050 --> 00:18:43,380 give him 20 minutes or maybe we could 461 00:18:47,390 --> 00:18:45,060 organize a pub crawl through the country 462 00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:47,400 for you there are worse things I could 463 00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:50,790 think of there are really hunting for a 464 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:52,740 mower for a couple of weeks in New 465 00:18:57,140 --> 00:18:54,690 Zealand and then doing a skeptics in the 466 00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:57,150 pub trial in New Zealand oh I think I 467 00:18:59,900 --> 00:18:58,620 know what I'm going to be aiming for 468 00:19:03,590 --> 00:18:59,910 this year that sounds too good to be 469 00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:03,600 true that's like it would be an absolute 470 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:06,240 blast now how can people in New Zealand 471 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:09,630 especially find out more about NZ 472 00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:10,530 skeptics 473 00:19:15,890 --> 00:19:12,600 so you can check out our brand new 474 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:15,900 website at skeptics NZ and we've got a 475 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:18,210 fair bit there we're just putting pages 476 00:19:22,340 --> 00:19:20,130 on about the history of how the skeptics 477 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:22,350 started who's running the skeptics at 478 00:19:27,050 --> 00:19:24,090 the moment we've got a lot of good 479 00:19:29,570 --> 00:19:27,060 information on there about just general 480 00:19:31,130 --> 00:19:29,580 information topics like bee pollen 481 00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:31,140 whether that's something that you should 482 00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,440 be taking astrology homeopathy just some 483 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:36,960 nice little pages that you know I guess 484 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:38,250 for the layperson there's not so much a 485 00:19:42,020 --> 00:19:40,620 hardcore skeptic will really get them to 486 00:19:44,570 --> 00:19:42,030 grips with what these things are about 487 00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:44,580 and we're about to in the next few weeks 488 00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:46,500 open up most of our journal I think much 489 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:48,030 like you guys in Australia I think 490 00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,650 everything older than a year old yeah 491 00:19:54,020 --> 00:19:51,660 you have as open access yes we're a 492 00:19:55,940 --> 00:19:54,030 we're about to do the same and we've got 493 00:19:57,620 --> 00:19:55,950 a good history I think our history 494 00:19:59,540 --> 00:19:57,630 doesn't go all the way back to 86 but 495 00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,550 from the early 90s I think we've got 496 00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:01,620 digital copies of all our articles and 497 00:20:05,030 --> 00:20:03,120 we're hoping to open all of that up to 498 00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:05,040 the public it's a wonderful idea it's a 499 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:06,360 wonderful idea because we had all these 500 00:20:12,410 --> 00:20:09,930 issues that are full of really good 501 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:12,420 reports really good investigations and 502 00:20:18,290 --> 00:20:15,810 good science yeah a lot of it was was 503 00:20:21,410 --> 00:20:18,300 certainly topical for the period it was 504 00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,420 in but a lot of it is is good no matter 505 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:23,280 when you read it so he is putting up 506 00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:25,650 your back issues or back information 507 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:27,270 online for the world to see I think is a 508 00:20:31,370 --> 00:20:29,250 wonderful idea it really helps 509 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:31,380 skepticism around the world yeah 510 00:20:34,370 --> 00:20:32,970 absolutely and I think you know there's 511 00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:34,380 a there's a lot of stuff there that I've 512 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:35,820 been looking through recently where I've 513 00:20:38,930 --> 00:20:37,410 gone oh if only I knew this two years 514 00:20:40,460 --> 00:20:38,940 ago when I was doing some work in this 515 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:40,470 area it would have been a really good 516 00:20:44,780 --> 00:20:41,790 primer and it would have saved me maybe 517 00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:44,790 five hours worth of research so yeah 518 00:20:48,050 --> 00:20:46,320 there's some really nice stuff in there 519 00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:48,060 and I think we're probably going to look 520 00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:49,980 at any more recent articles anything 521 00:20:52,970 --> 00:20:51,150 that's in the current issue of the 522 00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,980 journal that we think is important 523 00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:54,240 enough that people should be able to 524 00:20:57,530 --> 00:20:55,500 read it we're just going to open that up 525 00:20:59,150 --> 00:20:57,540 straightaway as well yeah that's that's 526 00:21:00,970 --> 00:20:59,160 that's the way to do it absolutely 527 00:21:04,220 --> 00:21:00,980 that's what we're here for we're here to 528 00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,230 to investigate to disseminate what we 529 00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:06,480 find and to hopefully spread the message 530 00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:09,080 of a science and reason as we say 531 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:13,440 absolutely well mark thank you very much 532 00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:14,970 for chatting to the skeptics on that 533 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:16,710 website once again ladies and gentlemen 534 00:21:22,940 --> 00:21:19,980 as skeptics dot NZ pretty easy or just 535 00:21:24,620 --> 00:21:22,950 google NZ skeptics to find out more and 536 00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:24,630 if you're in New Zealand please 537 00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:26,670 do that pop along to skeptics in the pub 538 00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:29,220 you won't regret it skeptics know how to 539 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:31,620 have a good time in a pub I must say my 540 00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:33,930 experience it's absolutely it's always a 541 00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:37,260 good time so Mike honey church from 542 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:39,870 Wellington thanks very much thanks a lot 543 00:22:00,410 --> 00:21:58,170 bang be reasonable it's a podcast in the 544 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:00,420 merseyside skeptics society hosted by 545 00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:02,610 Michael Marshall in each monthly 546 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:04,350 interview will examine belief from 547 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:06,510 outside of the mainstream exploring how 548 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,100 those views are constructed and what 549 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:09,840 evidence people feel support their case 550 00:22:15,170 --> 00:22:12,450 in the latest episode I speak with Mike 551 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:15,180 Buchanan leader of justice for men and 552 00:22:20,590 --> 00:22:17,730 boys and the women who love them the UK 553 00:22:24,530 --> 00:22:20,600 is only anti-feminist political party 554 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:24,540 whereas when a man is unemployed for a 555 00:22:30,170 --> 00:22:26,940 length of time and his female partner 556 00:22:32,660 --> 00:22:30,180 has to you know has tasked to support 557 00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:32,670 him that's known to be a major driver a 558 00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,700 major risk factor for divorce women will 559 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:38,400 not do that of some will but but then 560 00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:40,050 they you know you can only make sense of 561 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:42,030 this stuff Michael if you say how is a 562 00:22:46,190 --> 00:22:44,970 class do men and women act you know so 563 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,200 you can always find an exception saying 564 00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:48,960 this woman this and this man that but 565 00:22:51,650 --> 00:22:49,860 equally you can always find the 566 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:51,660 exception saying that Bernie Ecclestone 567 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:53,370 will marry models so I think that's an 568 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:55,290 equally valid criticism on either side 569 00:22:59,120 --> 00:22:56,850 all right but I mean could you could you 570 00:23:02,540 --> 00:22:59,130 point to can you point me to to a very 571 00:23:04,910 --> 00:23:02,550 wealthy woman a tall woman who married a 572 00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:04,920 you know a dustman hey what Mike had to 573 00:23:09,770 --> 00:23:06,900 say as well as finding back issues of 574 00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:09,780 the show by going to Merseyside skeptics 575 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:12,480 dog UK forward slash podcasts or 576 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:25,220 welcome to a week in science from our 577 00:23:30,110 --> 00:23:27,690 iOS bringing you the science you need to 578 00:23:32,419 --> 00:23:30,120 know humans might be smart have 579 00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:32,429 opposable thumbs and be able to talk but 580 00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:34,049 we've got nothing on the animal kingdom 581 00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:36,480 let's wander into the world of weird and 582 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:44,640 wacky wildlife the great expanses of the 583 00:23:49,580 --> 00:23:47,490 Australian desert a dry and barren makes 584 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:49,590 me thirsty just thinking about it but 585 00:23:54,529 --> 00:23:51,510 for the thorny devil a refreshing 586 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:54,539 beverage is just a step away thorny 587 00:23:58,850 --> 00:23:56,450 Devils can drink through their feet 588 00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:58,860 capillary action works to draw water 589 00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:01,080 along their skin two grooves on either 590 00:24:06,980 --> 00:24:04,020 side of their mouth to another spiky 591 00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:06,990 animal or is it the Australian giant 592 00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:09,750 cuttlefish is nature's shapeshifter not 593 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:11,700 only do they change their color and 594 00:24:16,399 --> 00:24:14,370 texture but small mal cuddlefish will 595 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:16,409 outwit their larger competitors by 596 00:24:20,060 --> 00:24:18,210 drawing in their tentacles to appear 597 00:24:22,669 --> 00:24:20,070 feminine and get up close and personal 598 00:24:25,460 --> 00:24:22,679 with their lady loves right under the 599 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:25,470 big guys noses well the cuttlefish so 600 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:27,210 from right under the big guys 601 00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:31,440 chromatophores and the award for the 602 00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:33,960 ickiest self healing ability has to go 603 00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:36,390 to the green tree frog when they get 604 00:24:40,399 --> 00:24:38,220 debris lodged in their skin their 605 00:24:42,890 --> 00:24:40,409 bladder sends out a sort of finger to 606 00:24:45,380 --> 00:24:42,900 enclose the object draw it back into 607 00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:45,390 their bladder and then they just pee it 608 00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,820 out we know about this freaky feature 609 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:49,679 through a combination of science and 610 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:52,049 luck researchers were finding the 611 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:53,490 transmitters they had surgically 612 00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:55,049 implanted on the rainforest floor 613 00:24:59,360 --> 00:24:57,720 wanting to find out more and thinking 614 00:25:01,700 --> 00:24:59,370 there may be a problem with the surgery 615 00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:01,710 process they took the project back to 616 00:25:06,169 --> 00:25:03,780 the lab and before long discovered the 617 00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:06,179 bizarre bladders and if you haven't 618 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:08,159 noticed all of these amazing animals 619 00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:11,610 call australia home and now for fast 620 00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:15,919 facts about researching wild animals 621 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:18,720 population studies of nocturnal or shy 622 00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:21,110 animals can prove difficult so instead 623 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:23,400 researchers can simply keep track of 624 00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,610 animal poo animal poo or scat as it's 625 00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:28,400 known in the scientific community 626 00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:31,030 can also be used to sample DNA and diets 627 00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:33,950 camera traps have revolutionized wild 628 00:25:38,830 --> 00:25:36,110 animal research these durable 629 00:25:41,050 --> 00:25:38,840 motion-activated cameras can give vital 630 00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:41,060 data about animal populations and 631 00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:43,280 behavior but sometimes the animals 632 00:25:47,980 --> 00:25:45,620 aren't so happy to see them chlorine 633 00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:47,990 biting or otherwise destroying the 634 00:25:52,810 --> 00:25:50,480 cameras that's it for this week in 635 00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:52,820 science for more information on animal 636 00:26:00,280 --> 00:25:55,870 superpowers go to the rirs website RI 637 00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:00,290 aus org a you follow us on twitter at 638 00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:03,440 our iOS and like us on Facebook I'm 639 00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:05,420 Casey Harrigan and we'll catch you next 640 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:19,190 week on Maynard calm don't you oh wow 641 00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:23,330 the secret language of puppies that's 642 00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:24,950 cuz we got a bit of flack last time for 643 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:26,780 all of our feline cat talk that was 644 00:26:31,180 --> 00:26:29,090 going on this book came in the mail for 645 00:26:33,130 --> 00:26:31,190 I think from allen & unwin the secret 646 00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:33,140 language of puppies which I imagine you 647 00:26:36,430 --> 00:26:34,400 the first thing you want to learn is 648 00:26:38,260 --> 00:26:36,440 could you stop peeing would be the first 649 00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:38,270 thing what do you see in there Tim this 650 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:40,640 secret language of puppies when you 651 00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:43,760 bring your puppy home he'll oh so he is 652 00:26:48,730 --> 00:26:46,310 he he'll usually be around eight weeks 653 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:48,740 old and will already have had his first 654 00:26:53,470 --> 00:26:51,230 vaccination well there you go auntie 655 00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:53,480 vaccinators most docs have been 656 00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,240 vaccinated and you don't see them being 657 00:27:00,490 --> 00:26:58,640 autistic which is what the stupid 658 00:27:03,310 --> 00:27:00,500 anti-vaxxers thinking you won't get any 659 00:27:04,780 --> 00:27:03,320 whooping cough from your puppy no no in 660 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:04,790 fact if it sounds like whooping cough 661 00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:08,090 it's just a pleased bark num on may not 662 00:27:24,769 --> 00:27:23,149 on the eleventh of March 2015 the 663 00:27:27,349 --> 00:27:24,779 National Health and Medical Research 664 00:27:28,729 --> 00:27:27,359 Council released a statement concluding 665 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:28,739 that there is no good evidence to 666 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:30,450 support the claim that homeopathy is 667 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:33,330 effective in treating health conditions 668 00:27:38,049 --> 00:27:35,970 this comes as no surprise to skeptics 669 00:27:41,239 --> 00:27:38,059 and skeptical groups around the world 670 00:27:43,249 --> 00:27:41,249 it's something we have been saying for 671 00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:43,259 many years it is self-evident that 672 00:27:50,629 --> 00:27:47,039 homeopathy does not work cannot work if 673 00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:50,639 the laws of physics hold true is widely 674 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:54,960 used however the power single sebo and 675 00:28:00,999 --> 00:27:57,570 selective reporting is quite significant 676 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:01,009 and we know that many people have 677 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:05,210 invested their lives in homeopathy 678 00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:08,190 practitioners who believe in it patients 679 00:28:13,879 --> 00:28:10,049 who believe in it and it is a 680 00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:13,889 multi-billion dollar industry here is 681 00:28:23,149 --> 00:28:16,440 the statement released by the National 682 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:23,159 Health and Medical Research Council from 683 00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:30,570 ww NHMRC gov au NHMRC released a 684 00:28:36,859 --> 00:28:32,960 statement and advice on homeopathy 685 00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:36,869 summary media release information 11th 686 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:39,960 of March 2015 the national health and 687 00:28:44,659 --> 00:28:42,330 research council today released a 688 00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:44,669 statement concluding that there is no 689 00:28:49,220 --> 00:28:46,799 good quality evidence to support the 690 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:49,230 claim that homeopathy is effective in 691 00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:51,450 treating health conditions its release 692 00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:53,369 follows a thorough review of the 693 00:28:59,149 --> 00:28:56,220 evidence conducted as part of the NHMRC 694 00:29:01,460 --> 00:28:59,159 s responsibility to provide advice and 695 00:29:03,739 --> 00:29:01,470 support informed health care decisions 696 00:29:06,049 --> 00:29:03,749 by the Australian community the 697 00:29:09,859 --> 00:29:06,059 conclusion is based on the findings of a 698 00:29:13,849 --> 00:29:09,869 rigorous assessment of more than 1,800 699 00:29:16,820 --> 00:29:13,859 papers of these 225 studies met the 700 00:29:19,129 --> 00:29:16,830 criteria to be included in the NH MRC's 701 00:29:22,489 --> 00:29:19,139 examination of the effectiveness of 702 00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,499 homeopathy the review found no good 703 00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:24,720 quality well-designed studies with 704 00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,430 enough part 705 00:29:29,530 --> 00:29:27,440 participants to support the idea that 706 00:29:32,770 --> 00:29:29,540 homeopathy works better than a placebo 707 00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,780 or causes health improvements equal to 708 00:29:37,390 --> 00:29:35,360 those of other treatments although some 709 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:37,400 studies did report that homeopathy was 710 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:39,650 effective the quality of those studies 711 00:29:44,890 --> 00:29:42,650 was assessed as being small and or of 712 00:29:47,980 --> 00:29:44,900 poor quality these studies had either 713 00:29:50,650 --> 00:29:47,990 too few participants poor design poor 714 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:50,660 conduct and or poor reporting to allow 715 00:29:56,110 --> 00:29:53,570 reliable conclusions to be drawn on the 716 00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:56,120 effectiveness of homeopathy according to 717 00:30:00,400 --> 00:29:58,970 CEO professor Warwick Anderson quote all 718 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:00,410 medical treatments and interventions 719 00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:03,110 should be underpinned by reliable 720 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:06,830 evidence NH mrcs review shows that there 721 00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:09,170 is no good quality evidence to support 722 00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:11,180 the claim that homeopathy works better 723 00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:13,670 than a placebo end quote he drew 724 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:16,040 particular attention to the NHMRC 725 00:30:21,490 --> 00:30:18,770 statement on homeopathy advice that 726 00:30:23,770 --> 00:30:21,500 homeopathy should not be used to treat 727 00:30:27,670 --> 00:30:23,780 conditions that a chronic serious or 728 00:30:29,740 --> 00:30:27,680 could become serious quote people who 729 00:30:32,170 --> 00:30:29,750 choose homeopathy may put their health 730 00:30:33,850 --> 00:30:32,180 at risk if they reject or delay 731 00:30:35,620 --> 00:30:33,860 treatments for which there is good 732 00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:35,630 evidence for safety and effectiveness 733 00:30:41,020 --> 00:30:38,180 people who are considering whether to 734 00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:41,030 use homeopathy should first get advice 735 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:43,190 from a registered health practitioner 736 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:46,310 and in the meantime keep taking their 737 00:30:50,170 --> 00:30:48,290 prescribed treatments and quote he 738 00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:50,180 emphasized that health practitioners 739 00:30:53,740 --> 00:30:52,160 should always offer treatments and 740 00:30:57,580 --> 00:30:53,750 therapies based on the best available 741 00:30:59,320 --> 00:30:57,590 evidence quote each year NHMRC funds 742 00:31:02,350 --> 00:30:59,330 research to test treatments and 743 00:31:05,170 --> 00:31:02,360 procedures offered to patients with more 744 00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:05,180 than 320 million dollars spent on 745 00:31:10,660 --> 00:31:07,820 clinical and health services research in 746 00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:10,670 2014 in quote professor Anderson said 747 00:31:16,540 --> 00:31:14,240 quote NHMRC conducts reviews of evidence 748 00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:16,550 on a range of health topics which is 749 00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:18,760 developed into guidelines or advice 750 00:31:22,810 --> 00:31:21,140 examples include clinical practice 751 00:31:25,270 --> 00:31:22,820 guidelines on the management of 752 00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:25,280 overweight and obese and the Australian 753 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:27,260 dietary guidelines end quote he said 754 00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:29,810 quote it is important that the public 755 00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:32,720 has access to independent high-quality 756 00:31:37,090 --> 00:31:34,760 advice when it comes to making decisions 757 00:31:38,770 --> 00:31:37,100 about health care from this review the 758 00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:38,780 main recommendation for 759 00:31:43,930 --> 00:31:41,240 millions is that they should not rely on 760 00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:43,940 homeopathy as a substitute for proven 761 00:31:49,330 --> 00:31:47,000 effective treatments this statement was 762 00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:49,340 a result of a rigorous examination of 763 00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:51,320 the evidence and used internationally 764 00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:53,840 accepted methods for assessing the 765 00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:56,510 quality and reliability of evidence for 766 00:32:01,230 --> 00:31:58,730 determining whether or not a therapy is 767 00:32:04,810 --> 00:32:01,240 effective for treating health conditions 768 00:32:07,540 --> 00:32:04,820 NHMRC is also aware of strongly held 769 00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:07,550 views on the topic so it is important to 770 00:32:11,710 --> 00:32:09,590 note that the process was thoroughly 771 00:32:14,410 --> 00:32:11,720 consultative and the public was invited 772 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:14,420 to submit information and evidence all 773 00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:16,610 of which was considered by our expert 774 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:19,340 working committee end quote the findings 775 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:22,130 of the homeopathy working groups review 776 00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:24,730 are summarized in the final NHMRC 777 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:27,470 information paper evidence on the 778 00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:29,510 effectiveness of homeopathy for treating 779 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:32,260 clinical conditions also released today 780 00:32:37,150 --> 00:32:34,610 its release follows the public 781 00:32:40,390 --> 00:32:37,160 consultation on the draft information 782 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:40,400 paper in 2014 the statement information 783 00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:42,350 paper and frequently asked questions are 784 00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:46,070 available on the NHMRC website and that 785 00:32:58,170 --> 00:32:53,990 of course is NHMRC gov au from 786 00:33:02,140 --> 00:32:58,180 complementary medicines Australia wwwcom 787 00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:02,150 Australia org not a you media release 788 00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:07,300 11th of March 2015 CMA disappointed with 789 00:33:13,540 --> 00:33:10,510 NHMRC statement on homeopathy 790 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:13,550 complementary medicines Australia CMA 791 00:33:17,950 --> 00:33:15,770 today responded to the position 792 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:17,960 statement by the National Health and 793 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:21,710 Medical Research Council NH MRC on 794 00:33:29,410 --> 00:33:24,890 homeopathy by reiterating its concerns 795 00:33:31,870 --> 00:33:29,420 into the MH MRC's methods used to review 796 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:31,880 the evidence of the effectiveness of 797 00:33:38,590 --> 00:33:34,910 homeopathy mr. Kyle Gibson chief 798 00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:38,600 executive of cma said quote we are very 799 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:40,640 disappointed with the position taken by 800 00:33:47,050 --> 00:33:44,570 the NH MRC especially when a number of 801 00:33:49,210 --> 00:33:47,060 independent experts in the sector have 802 00:33:51,790 --> 00:33:49,220 expressed strong concerns with the 803 00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:51,800 methodology of the review according to 804 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:52,710 information 805 00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:56,010 pain from the NHMRC under freedom of 806 00:34:02,380 --> 00:33:58,770 information laws then quote quote the 807 00:34:07,690 --> 00:34:02,390 NHMRC review on homeopathy had five 808 00:34:11,329 --> 00:34:07,700 fundamental flaws one shoddy methodology 809 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:11,339 NHMRC provides no adequate explanation 810 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:15,330 of why randomized controlled trials RTC 811 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:18,510 were excluded from the review the NHMRC 812 00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:21,810 decision not to adhere to a search of 813 00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:24,080 level one evidence as per international 814 00:34:31,099 --> 00:34:27,440 standards should certainly be justified 815 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:31,109 to selective research the choice of 816 00:34:36,379 --> 00:34:33,690 databases searched was not broad enough 817 00:34:39,379 --> 00:34:36,389 to capture the balance of complementary 818 00:34:42,829 --> 00:34:39,389 medicine specific content and exclude 819 00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:42,839 non-english studies three lack of 820 00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,740 expertise mhm MRC did not appoint a 821 00:34:54,919 --> 00:34:49,200 homeopathic expert to the review panel 822 00:34:57,530 --> 00:34:54,929 for flawed evidence and HMRC did not 823 00:35:00,589 --> 00:34:57,540 provide an adequate explanation of why 824 00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:00,599 only systematic reviews were used where 825 00:35:05,210 --> 00:35:02,520 systematic reviews have inherent 826 00:35:09,410 --> 00:35:05,220 weaknesses as a reliable source of 827 00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:09,420 evidence five ignoring opinion of 828 00:35:14,740 --> 00:35:12,089 experts two out of three experts who 829 00:35:17,359 --> 00:35:14,750 NHMRC consulted prior to publication 830 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:17,369 expressed numerous concerns over the 831 00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:20,130 methodology and selective use of the 832 00:35:25,790 --> 00:35:23,430 data and recommended the NHMRC could not 833 00:35:29,359 --> 00:35:25,800 come to the very definite conclusion 834 00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:29,369 that it came to the NHMRC then chose to 835 00:35:36,140 --> 00:35:33,060 ignore these expert opinions mr. Gibson 836 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:36,150 added quote papers released under 837 00:35:41,690 --> 00:35:38,730 Freedom of Information show that the 838 00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,700 NHMRC failed to appoint a homeopathic 839 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:44,160 expert to the review panel left out 840 00:35:48,770 --> 00:35:46,890 randomized controlled trials excluded 841 00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:48,780 all studies not published in English and 842 00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:51,089 limited the choice of databases searched 843 00:35:55,849 --> 00:35:53,670 which basically meant that the balance 844 00:35:59,300 --> 00:35:55,859 of complementary medicines specific 845 00:36:01,700 --> 00:35:59,310 content was omitted end quote quote no 846 00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:01,710 valid conclusions can be drawn from this 847 00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:04,980 review except that the NHMRC has failed 848 00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:06,550 to uphold its own standard 849 00:36:12,510 --> 00:36:09,550 of ethics and quality research in this 850 00:36:14,780 --> 00:36:12,520 instant end quote said mr. Gibson mr. 851 00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:14,790 Gibson went on to say quote the NHMRC 852 00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:18,190 did accept that some studies reported 853 00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:20,950 homeopathy was effective but has ruled 854 00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:23,350 them out of the review presumably 855 00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:25,360 because they did not meet the narrow 856 00:36:30,510 --> 00:36:28,420 Orthodox pharmaceutical view homeopathy 857 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:30,520 has been around for hundreds of years 858 00:36:34,890 --> 00:36:32,890 and I'm sure it will be around a lot 859 00:36:38,460 --> 00:36:34,900 longer than some of the critics end 860 00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,470 quote ends another responses from the 861 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:40,480 Australian homeopathic Association 862 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:44,010 incorporated but it goes on for about 863 00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:48,850 four pages five pages six pages 13 pages 864 00:36:53,730 --> 00:36:52,000 and I will provide a link to that in the 865 00:36:55,470 --> 00:36:53,740 show notes for this episode or you can 866 00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:55,480 just Google Australian homeopathic 867 00:37:00,660 --> 00:36:58,000 association inc and i'm sure you'll see 868 00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,670 that letter needless to say they weren't 869 00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:03,280 happy with the review either Australian 870 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:04,960 skeptics and other skeptical groups 871 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:06,490 around the world I'm sure would be 872 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:08,710 delighted if any homeopath or 873 00:37:14,030 --> 00:37:10,690 representative from a homeopathic body 874 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:14,040 could pass a simple double-blind test 875 00:37:21,630 --> 00:37:19,410 into their potions we now wonder why 876 00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:21,640 pharmacies in this country in particular 877 00:37:45,970 --> 00:37:42,549 hey Heidi oh hi Joe hi Heidi oh hi 878 00:37:49,269 --> 00:37:45,980 Maynard hi Maynard oh hi Joe nice day in 879 00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:49,279 this park yeah yes great weather oh look 880 00:37:56,289 --> 00:37:53,119 a unicorn a unicorn there are no such 881 00:37:58,900 --> 00:37:56,299 things as unicorn silly yes there are no 882 00:38:01,359 --> 00:37:58,910 there isn't hey ladies what are you 883 00:38:04,839 --> 00:38:01,369 arguing about Joe thinks unicorns are 884 00:38:08,349 --> 00:38:04,849 real they fo are let's look this up in 885 00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,359 the skeptics dictionary the word how can 886 00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:10,640 we do that in this perk there are no 887 00:38:15,250 --> 00:38:12,950 computers here you ladies probably don't 888 00:38:18,339 --> 00:38:15,260 know about the skeptics dictionary app 889 00:38:21,460 --> 00:38:18,349 available now for iPhone iPad and iPod 890 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:21,470 Touch in the App Store yeah we do we've 891 00:38:27,789 --> 00:38:23,450 been listening to the skeptic zone for 892 00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:27,799 years you know yes ok the app lets you 893 00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:29,990 access all the great skeptics dictionary 894 00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:33,710 articles when you're on the go yeah let 895 00:38:39,460 --> 00:38:36,529 me look up unicorns oh cool Heidi 896 00:38:41,950 --> 00:38:39,470 prepare to be proven wrong it says here 897 00:38:45,279 --> 00:38:41,960 the Unicorn is a creature from fables 898 00:38:46,809 --> 00:38:45,289 aha actually I see now that someone just 899 00:38:49,359 --> 00:38:46,819 dumped their ice cream cone on that 900 00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,369 horse's head thanks skeptic ditching 901 00:39:08,289 --> 00:38:51,680 their iphone app that's just some guy in 902 00:39:14,839 --> 00:39:11,660 in 2007 I found myself on the amazing 903 00:39:16,670 --> 00:39:14,849 cruise up the coast of Alaska with James 904 00:39:19,309 --> 00:39:16,680 Randi and a bunch of skeptics and most 905 00:39:21,019 --> 00:39:19,319 of them i think her in this room in this 906 00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:21,029 pub with me at the moment in sydney 907 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:26,520 enjoying a nice cleansing ale oh thank 908 00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:29,250 you and I'm speaking now of Jeff wag 909 00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:31,980 hello Jeff hello what's happening why 910 00:39:37,150 --> 00:39:34,230 all these skeptics in Sydney it was time 911 00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:37,160 for us to all come down to Australia 912 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:39,960 Australia and and see what's going on in 913 00:39:43,519 --> 00:39:41,490 her and actually well then we're moving 914 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:43,529 on to new caledonia and then some of us 915 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:44,970 are going to go to New Zealand so we're 916 00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:46,650 doing all of this south of the Equator 917 00:39:52,339 --> 00:39:49,710 stuff and we're just having a fabulous 918 00:39:54,410 --> 00:39:52,349 time this is an adventure cruise a 919 00:39:56,329 --> 00:39:54,420 skeptical adding what is it exactly this 920 00:39:58,640 --> 00:39:56,339 is actually a curiosity cruise this is 921 00:40:00,859 --> 00:39:58,650 from the college of curiosity and the 922 00:40:02,839 --> 00:40:00,869 point of this type of cruise and it's 923 00:40:05,660 --> 00:40:02,849 more than a cruise it's a trip it's it's 924 00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:05,670 an adventure is to be curious about the 925 00:40:10,549 --> 00:40:08,220 world and the people in it and to even 926 00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:10,559 see some of the mundane things and look 927 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:12,150 a little deeper and see a little bit 928 00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:15,450 more profound profound Naomi hello how 929 00:40:19,309 --> 00:40:17,640 are you hi I'm quite well thank you I 930 00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:19,319 was so good to see you it's good to see 931 00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:21,180 you doin later three years it has been a 932 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:23,460 while but we first met on again on this 933 00:40:29,029 --> 00:40:25,130 cruise of the kindness you want about 934 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:29,039 going to Alaska in a hot it was the 935 00:40:33,559 --> 00:40:31,170 infinity was the name of the bow to thee 936 00:40:35,809 --> 00:40:33,569 we were in a hot tub you know snowing on 937 00:40:38,059 --> 00:40:35,819 our head it was yeah we feel played 938 00:40:39,859 --> 00:40:38,069 behind us doing so the photo bombing on 939 00:40:42,620 --> 00:40:39,869 ya see what yeah that's exactly what he 940 00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:42,630 was doing so on I know what a wonderful 941 00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:44,640 time we had on that cruise and you've 942 00:40:47,930 --> 00:40:46,049 been on some others too i think i've 943 00:40:49,940 --> 00:40:47,940 been on pretty much every trip that Jeff 944 00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:49,950 is organized and a couple that were 945 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:53,520 unorganized it was basically human I 946 00:40:59,210 --> 00:40:54,930 only and then 947 00:41:01,069 --> 00:40:59,220 low and then some side trips to meet 948 00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,079 friends us in Chicago like his wedding 949 00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:03,599 and made mutual friends and I saw him 950 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:06,480 two weeks ago in Austin Texas now I'm 951 00:41:10,099 --> 00:41:08,490 seeing him in Sydney Australia you tried 952 00:41:12,380 --> 00:41:10,109 to get away but there you go there he 953 00:41:14,839 --> 00:41:12,390 goes there he goes we can't stand each 954 00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:14,849 other what's the philosophy Jack the 955 00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:17,250 philosophy is that everywhere you go in 956 00:41:20,839 --> 00:41:18,960 the world there's really something 957 00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:20,849 interesting and new to learn not only 958 00:41:25,579 --> 00:41:22,260 about the place you're going to but 959 00:41:27,170 --> 00:41:25,589 yourself you are you are put into an 960 00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,180 environment up for example we're in 961 00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:28,800 sydney right now this is a major world 962 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:30,630 city people live here they go about 963 00:41:35,540 --> 00:41:33,930 their lives and their that's me it is in 964 00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:35,550 fact in fact Richard is here to prove 965 00:41:41,930 --> 00:41:38,960 this concept of people living here and 966 00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:41,940 it's they'd but they do it subtly 967 00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:44,700 different than we do in the States say 968 00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:46,079 or where there's folks here from the UK 969 00:41:49,579 --> 00:41:47,849 and we awful travel too often travel 970 00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:49,589 with people from Canada you awful travel 971 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:52,400 with there's some Guinness talking here 972 00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:54,690 they have guinness and sydney who knew 973 00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,900 and it's an important thing to kind of 974 00:42:01,490 --> 00:41:59,520 walk up mile in someone else's shoes 975 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:01,500 with some of the interesting things 976 00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,210 we've encountered in sydney that aren't 977 00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,040 part of the major tours are that 978 00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:07,440 obviously they drive on the wrong side 979 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:11,460 of the road but they also walk on the 980 00:42:15,859 --> 00:42:14,010 wrong side of the street but Sydney is 981 00:42:17,780 --> 00:42:15,869 so cosmopolitan that there are so many 982 00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:17,790 people here from all over the world that 983 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:19,260 the street turns into chaos because 984 00:42:23,299 --> 00:42:21,210 everyone's following a different rule 985 00:42:25,370 --> 00:42:23,309 for walking down the street so what 986 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:25,380 happens is everybody actually describes 987 00:42:30,319 --> 00:42:28,530 the pattern of DNA as they walk as they 988 00:42:31,970 --> 00:42:30,329 try to determine what the person in 989 00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:31,980 front of them is going to do so 990 00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:33,720 everyone's making a double helix as they 991 00:42:37,789 --> 00:42:35,400 walk down the sidewalk this is just one 992 00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:37,799 of the many little subtle weird and 993 00:42:42,589 --> 00:42:40,140 wonderful things we've just had in one 994 00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:42,599 day here in one day amazing amazing and 995 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:44,160 how often do you have these adventures 996 00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,890 try to do them twice a year at varies 997 00:42:50,299 --> 00:42:48,480 depending on what's going on and then 998 00:42:51,620 --> 00:42:50,309 I've been trying to do a little trip in 999 00:42:53,089 --> 00:42:51,630 a big trip that's what kind of a big 1000 00:42:54,319 --> 00:42:53,099 trip was you know a little bit more 1001 00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,329 expensive but sometimes I'll try to do a 1002 00:42:58,789 --> 00:42:56,160 smaller trip only costs a few hundred 1003 00:43:01,339 --> 00:42:58,799 dollars and it might go somewhere kind 1004 00:43:03,620 --> 00:43:01,349 of what most people consider boring for 1005 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:03,630 example Nassau in the Bahamas everybody 1006 00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:05,250 in the United States who travels or 1007 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:07,710 cruises has been to Nassau it's not a 1008 00:43:11,310 --> 00:43:08,770 whole lot you can do 1009 00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:11,320 NASA except that it turns out there is 1010 00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:14,200 you can find really unusual things if 1011 00:43:17,730 --> 00:43:15,520 you're willing to explore a bit for 1012 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:17,740 example the last time I was there I got 1013 00:43:22,140 --> 00:43:19,930 into a cab and I said I want you to take 1014 00:43:24,750 --> 00:43:22,150 me somewhere where no tourists has ever 1015 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:24,760 asked you to go before and he took you 1016 00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:27,250 home right he said well we ended up 1017 00:43:31,170 --> 00:43:29,440 going to this place and naomi was there 1018 00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:31,180 we went to this place called the pirate 1019 00:43:35,850 --> 00:43:34,030 staircase where hand-carved in this 1020 00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:35,860 cliff were these stairs that went down 1021 00:43:40,740 --> 00:43:38,830 to the to the ocean and apparently that 1022 00:43:42,570 --> 00:43:40,750 the legend is that pirates used to use 1023 00:43:44,010 --> 00:43:42,580 this for smuggling goods and carrying 1024 00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:44,020 them up without the government watching 1025 00:43:47,580 --> 00:43:45,790 but I actually did some research and 1026 00:43:49,770 --> 00:43:47,590 found out they were carved for a movie 1027 00:43:51,540 --> 00:43:49,780 in the movie was called 20,000 Leagues 1028 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:51,550 Under the Sea Wow and you may think 1029 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:53,530 you've seen this movie but you haven't 1030 00:43:58,800 --> 00:43:56,050 it was a silent movie in like nineteen 1031 00:44:01,320 --> 00:43:58,810 fifteen it was the first movie ever to 1032 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:01,330 use film underwater they invented a new 1033 00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,010 kind of lighting that let them take 1034 00:44:07,740 --> 00:44:05,440 cameras underwater and film it and this 1035 00:44:10,110 --> 00:44:07,750 is this amazing historic place nobody 1036 00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:10,120 knows about so it's just one tiny 1037 00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:12,190 example of what you can find in the most 1038 00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:13,660 mundane places if you're willing to 1039 00:44:18,330 --> 00:44:16,270 explore a little bit I I have to agree 1040 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:18,340 if you do find interesting places how 1041 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:20,530 can people find out more Jeff well 1042 00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,570 college of curiosity is at strangely 1043 00:44:26,850 --> 00:44:24,880 enough College of curiosity calm and we 1044 00:44:28,830 --> 00:44:26,860 advertise all our trips there and every 1045 00:44:31,230 --> 00:44:28,840 day or most days we have a little bit of 1046 00:44:32,730 --> 00:44:31,240 a podcast with one little tiny curiosity 1047 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:32,740 for your day just to kind of give you 1048 00:44:36,270 --> 00:44:34,090 something to think about as you go about 1049 00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:36,280 your daily life which is different from 1050 00:44:55,420 --> 00:44:39,220 my daily life I couldn't agree more 1051 00:45:00,770 --> 00:44:58,670 hello and Allah needle on solo scoffs of 1052 00:45:03,140 --> 00:45:00,780 dip moment been to an at low so another 1053 00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:03,150 skeptics on for way to stop and katie 1054 00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:07,440 schneider anchor a meeting for Marcy 1055 00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:10,500 karna we may be fun skeptics own funds 1056 00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,780 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1057 00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:26,800 zone and as ever thank you to those 1058 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:29,140 people those lovely people out there who 1059 00:45:33,210 --> 00:45:31,330 support the skeptic zone by chipping in 1060 00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:33,220 a dollar or sometimes five dollars or 1061 00:45:37,830 --> 00:45:35,830 even ten dollars now your contribution 1062 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:37,840 means the show keeps going it's as 1063 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:40,530 simple as that it means I can afford to 1064 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:43,090 spend the time doing the show I can get 1065 00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,410 my report as nice things like 1066 00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:46,960 microphones I can buy may not lunch 1067 00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,990 things like that thank you again in the 1068 00:45:53,370 --> 00:45:51,520 coming weeks we look forward to more 1069 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:53,380 reports from Maine art from Joe 1070 00:45:58,890 --> 00:45:56,290 alabaster from Heidi Robertson up there 1071 00:46:01,260 --> 00:45:58,900 in the northern rivers area of New South 1072 00:46:03,690 --> 00:46:01,270 Wales but under next week this is 1073 00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:03,700 Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney 1074 00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:09,880 Australia you've been listening to the 1075 00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:12,400 skeptic zone podcast visit our website 1076 00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:16,240 at WCA pegs on TV for contacts and 1077 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:19,510 archive of all episodes since 2008 and 1078 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:22,690 our online store please support the 1079 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:24,730 skeptic zone by following us on twitter 1080 00:46:31,620 --> 00:46:28,090 at skeptic zone liking us on facebook 1081 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:31,630 and leaving a review on iTunes you can 1082 00:46:36,930 --> 00:46:33,130 also show your support by subscribing 1083 00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:36,940 via paypal for as little as 99 cents a 1084 00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:40,000 week the skeptic zone is an independent 1085 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:41,590 production the views and opinions 1086 00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:44,050 expressed on the skeptic zone and not 1087 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:46,270 necessarily those Australian skeptic Z